Caetano Veloso: Great to be here.
Charlie Rose: Let's talk about this first, and then your
life. "A Foreign Sound" comes from Bob Dylan?
Caetano Veloso: Well, yes, it's a phrase from "It's
All Right, Ma," a song by Bob Dylan from his album, "Bringing It All Back Home,"
which is my favorite among his.
Charlie Rose: But the phrase "A Foreign Sound"
comes from -- what's the line?
Caetano Veloso: From the song "It's All
Right, Ma, I'm only Bleeding," and it says -- it's the first refrain
of the song. It goes, "so don't fear if you hear a foreign sound to your
ear. It's all right, ma, I'm only sighing."
Charlie Rose: Now, is this a foreign sound we're going to
hear? I mean, this -- because what's interesting about this is two things.
Number one, it's American songs sung by you. But you say it's in the great
tradition of all the things you've done in Brazil.
Caetano Veloso: Well, yes.
Charlie Rose: And so how is it different for Americans? I
mean, is your interpretation different? Do you look at these songs differently?
Caetano Veloso: Yes, no doubt. It has to be. You know,
because it's seen from the outside. American song has been part of our lives
all over the world across the 20th century. You know? Throughout the 20th
century. But still, from each part of the world -- of the world, you'll have
different, subtly different responses to that presence, which has been a gift
but also something that you -- one has had to face in a way, because, you know,
you have national traditions, having a dialogue with this beautiful
contribution that came from the United States. So it's -- this record is mostly
about this dialogue. So it's foreign, because those are foreign songs for me,
although I've grown up knowing them.
Charlie Rose: With all the artists and with the
songwriters and with the composers and the people.
Caetano Veloso: I sound foreign singing
them, with my accent and my choices.
Charlie Rose: The choices are fascinating. "So
in Love" by Cole Porter. "Always" by Irving Berlin.
Kurt Cobain, "Come As You Are." "Feelings."
Caetano Veloso: That's a funny one.
Charlie Rose: And where does that come from?
Caetano Veloso: Well, as a matter of fact, it's a false American song.
Charlie Rose: A false--
Caetano Veloso: It's Brazilian.
Charlie Rose: Oh, it is Brazilian?
Caetano Veloso: It was written by a Brazilian guy--
Charlie Rose: But it was popular in America.
Caetano Veloso: Very.
Charlie Rose: Worldwide.
Caetano Veloso: It became an international American hit, but it was a fake American
song.
Charlie Rose: "Love for Sale," Cole Porter.
"The Man I Love," Gershwin and Gershwin.
Caetano Veloso: Yeah.
Charlie Rose: "Smoke Gets in Your Eyes," Jerome
Kern. "Cry Me a River," Arthur Hamilton. "Jamaica
Farewell." Now, who's -- did Harry Belafonte sing that?
Caetano Veloso: Harry Belafonte sang that, yes.
Charlie Rose: "Nature Boy." "Nothing
but Flowers," David Byrne. "Manhattan," Richard Rogers.
Here's one of the earliest songs I remember, pop songs. "Diana."
"Diana" by-- One of the earliest songs I remember.
Caetano Veloso: Me too. Me too.
Charlie Rose: Because you and I are about the same age.
"Summertime."
Caetano Veloso: Yeah.
Charlie Rose: Gershwin.
Caetano Veloso: Crazy to record that, but I
did.
Charlie Rose: "It's All Right Ma," Bob
Dylan. Here's one, "Love Me Tender."
Caetano Veloso: Yeah.
Charlie Rose: You've got everybody here. "Body
and Soul." Steve Wonder.
Caetano Veloso: Stevie Wonder. Stevie Wonder, too.
Charlie Rose: "Something Good," Richard
Rogers. "Blue Skies," Irving Berlin. Now, what were you
looking for in putting all these songs together? What was the idea?
Caetano Veloso: I wanted to respond sincerely to what these songs did to me, and to what
they did to our sentiment in Brazil. You know.
Charlie Rose: Did you choose this time in particular to
release this album, to record this album?
Caetano Veloso: Well, I -- as a matter of fact, this is a very old project. I've been
postponing it for decades. You know.
Charlie Rose: Why?
Caetano Veloso: Because I have always thought in the end it's going to be just
irrelevant, you know, but for me it's not.
Charlie Rose: Irrelevant in that one more great artist is
singing great American standards?
Caetano Veloso: Well,
yes, it's something that everybody has done. And I think always, most of the
time it's better than I can do.
Charlie Rose:
Yeah.
Caetano Veloso: You know, so that's why--
Charlie Rose: If you can't make it special, don't do it.
Caetano Veloso: Well, yeah. But in the end, I thought the thing itself might be special
for me, you know, as an experience of, you know, purifying my relationship with
these things. You know.
Charlie Rose: Suppose your sister had never been -- had
gone off to make that song when she did. At that performance that she did.
Would you have become a singer?
Caetano Veloso: I don't know. I don't think so. I wanted to be a filmmaker.
Charlie Rose: Do you still?
Caetano Veloso: I still do somehow. I made one feature movie in the mid- to late '80s.
Charlie Rose: And was that experience satisfying?
Caetano Veloso: Yes, it was in a way for me. But it didn't lead me to make others as I
thought it was going to.
Charlie Rose: In other words, you feel such an urgency and
such a sense of the power of film that you wanted to go out and do others -- or
you had so many things you wanted to express that you would--
Caetano Veloso: No, the thing is, while I was making it I was already thinking of many
others that I was going to make, because I thought that it was, you know, going
easily, and I felt good doing it, you know, making -- being in the set, of --
of shooting and everything. But when it was finished, and I had to face
opinions, and, you know, the post-production things were a little, you know,
painful. So it was kind of more difficult than music. So I was not, you know,
stimulated to continue that.
Charlie Rose: The music came first, before the politics.
Charlie Rose: No doubt.
Caetano Veloso: No doubt.
Charlie Rose: And the influence was Gilberto and the bossa
nova?
Caetano Veloso: No doubt. Jean Julbert (ph) and bossa nova -- when I heard Jean Julbert
(ph) for the first time, it was like enlightenment. You know, it was like.
Charlie Rose: What did it say?
Caetano Veloso: As a
matter of fact, it was just, you know, a lesson on beauty and on taste. You
know, it was a lesson of criterion.
Charlie Rose: And that was the most powerful influence.
Caetano Veloso: Well, yes. It was more and less (ph) than an influence--
Charlie Rose: It was?
Caetano Veloso: -- because it was more than an influence, because it was like an
enlightenment. It served for everything. Even if I was not to make, you know,
to work with music, that had been, you know, something that would somehow, you
know, define my life.
Charlie Rose: Did your music reflect his?
Caetano Veloso: Well, yes. But, you know, my music, I have always found it in a way, you
know, not, I have always thought that it doesn't deserve to say that it has
been influenced by Jean Julbert (ph), you know.
Charlie Rose: Why is that?
Caetano Veloso: Because, you know, you must deserve to be influenced by some people. You
know, you must make some things that allow you to say -- it's not easy for a
person, you know, to begin to write and say, I'm influenced by Dostoevsky--
Charlie Rose: Because it's--
Caetano Veloso: It's just -- it's--
Charlie Rose: It's a little bit sort of being, you know,
modesty prevails you not to say, oh, sure I was influenced by Shakespeare.
Caetano Veloso: Yeah, it's a little, you know.
Charlie Rose: You're associating yourself with the people
that you have such high esteem for that you don't want to--
Caetano Veloso: That's the way I see Jean Julbert (ph).
Charlie Rose: This is from David -- your good friend,
David Byrne. "It is amusing to watch
North American journalists try to describe Caetano Veloso by analogy and by
comparison to local models. The Bob Dylan of Brazil doesn't quite fit, because
despite his also being a poetic composer, Caetano's voice and melodic invention
are profoundly beautiful, and his arrangements are often radical at the same
time. Neal Young doesn't match either, despite the ethereal and wistful
similarities. Harmonically, the inventiveness rivals Lennon and McCartney. But
perhaps this comparison isn't fair, because Veloso is still evolving and
mutating, and part of that partnership is long gone. Hybrids? Leonard Cohen and
Gil Evans? Serge Ginsburg and Bowie? Stevie Wonder? Cole Porter plus Marvin
Gaye? The fact is, there just aren't any parallels." Pretty good by
David, don't you think?
Caetano Veloso: Yes, he's a great guy.
Charlie Rose: When did the politics get involved, for you
and also for Gilberto Gil?
Caetano Veloso: Well, it was, you know, in 1964. We were very young, and a coup d'etat
came in Brazil.
Charlie Rose: Right, the generals were in power.
Caetano Veloso: Yeah. We had been under -- we had been under military dictatorship for
20 years, about. And in 1968, when we had started to become well known in
Brazil with our movement that was known as Tropicalia, then the, you know,
hard-liners within the military dictatorship made this coup within the coup,
and Gilberto Gill and I were put in jail.
Charlie Rose: Right. For how long?
Caetano Veloso: For two months. And then four months more of kind of home arrest. And
after that, two-and-a-half years exile in London, the two of us.
Charlie Rose: At the same time, when you look at Brazil
today, you have a rather remarkable political figure in charge, Lula.
Caetano Veloso: Yes.
Charlie Rose: Your friend is now the culture minister. Gilberto Gil.
Caetano Veloso: Yes.
Charlie Rose: Is all well in Brazil? Do you have -- are
you optimistic about where your country is and the place that you're so closely
associated with?
Caetano Veloso: I wouldn't say I'm optimistic. I'm happy that Gill is there and he's
happy being there. I'm happy that Lula became president, which is in itself a
political event, you know, a historical step.
Charlie Rose: Because of his political background.
Caetano Veloso: Because of his life background, because of everything. You know, he's
the first president in Brazil that didn't come from the elite. He came from the
very poor, you know--
Charlie Rose: What was he, a union leader?
Caetano Veloso: He became a union leader. He became a worker. He was a very poor child
from the northeast, just like me. And then he emigrated to Sao Paolo, and
became a worker. And as a worker, he became union leader. And from there -- from
that to politics, and finally he became president of Brazil. You know, the
president of the republic--
Charlie Rose: Here's what's interesting about -- go ahead
-- what's interesting about him from my standpoint is that on the one hand,
with that kind of heritage and with his own sort of very, very, very much seen
as a spokesman for poor, you know, a spokesman for social justice, there are
two things that are interesting. He is very much an advocate of economic growth
and very much an advocate of -- of capitalism.
Caetano Veloso: Nowadays, yes. And I think it's pretty wise that he is like that. He has
become pretty pragmatic. You know.
Charlie Rose: Pragmatic is a better word than anything.
Caetano Veloso: He has become -- he has become that.
Charlie Rose: Has he lost support from his natural base
because of that?
Caetano Veloso: Some of it. Not entirely. In numbers, he has been supported in all his
decisions by the majority of the population. And by people who backed him
beforehand. But some people in his own party reacted against his more pragmatic
moves, you know? But it was a minority, who kept on wanting to be ideological
instead of, you know, just administrative.
Charlie Rose: Everybody who talks about you, they talk
about the songwriting. This obviously is things that are written by other
people. They also talk about this extraordinary range that you have. I mean,
how do you characterize yourself? Do any of these comparisons make sense to
you?
Caetano Veloso: Not really. Not really. I don't think much of myself, you know, trying
to define or describe myself. I just go on.
Charlie Rose: Just go on and do it. Right?
Caetano Veloso: I just go on.
Charlie Rose: Create the art and move to the next job.
Caetano Veloso: Oh, yes. I accept what comes mostly.
Charlie Rose: Someone said that they thought that these
songs in "A Foreign Sound"
were in part a kind of protest against anti-Americanism. Any truth to that?
Caetano Veloso: In a way, it could be seen a little bit like that, because nowadays
there is this anti-Americanism spread or diffused all over the world. Even in
Brazil. But in Europe a lot, and everywhere. And for many reasons, that you
know. But I didn't want to, you know, I didn't want to give up making the
record now because of that. On the opposite, I felt like doing it more because
there was this anti-Americanism feeling around.
Charlie Rose: To show that notwithstanding whatever the
politics of the moment, you have this great love for Americans.
Caetano Veloso: Yes, yes, for the good things that America means.
Charlie Rose: The culture and values and--
Caetano Veloso: Yes, everything. You know, the American Revolution is something -- it's
a treasure of humanity. You know, the American Revolution is a treasure of for
all of us.
Charlie Rose: Thank you for coming.
Caetano Veloso: Thank you very much.
Charlie Rose: Caetano Veloso, "A Foreign Sound."
We are pleased that he's going to take some time to record something here in
our tiny little studio. I'll say good-bye
at this point. Thank you very much for joining us.
